Psychiatric Assessment Interview of Patrick Fox (2019-01-26)

1.

Recept:

Hi there. Yeah, I've let your case manager know.

2.

Fox:

Okay. It says all bags and backpacks must be checked in at reception...

3.

Recept:

We, we will take care of that for you.

4.

Fox:

Great.

5.

?UF:

Please empty your [indiscernible] it's our policy not to [indiscernible] you have any, so. I'll also need you to [indiscernible] your bag [indiscernible].

6.

Fox:

You want me to … let my bag out of my sight …

7.

?UF:

Yes. Uh...

8.

Fox:

In something that's not locked.

9.

?UF:

Yep.

10.

Fox:

You people think that I actually trust you that much?

11.

?UF:

It'll be here. And do you have any recording devices on you, or a telephone?

12.

Fox:

No. That's all I have.

13.

?UF:

Okay.

14.

Fox:

You want to take my telephone, too?

15.

?UM:

Yeah, I need to have all recording devices [indiscernible]. Anything else in your pockets?

16.

Fox:

No. Nothing.

17.

Levy:

Just wanted to get a yellow pad. I didn't have any, uh, notepads [indiscernible]. Mr. Fox?

18.

Fox:

Yes.

19.

Levy:

Hi, I'm Dr. Levy. Pleased to meet you, sir. Come on down. Lee's gonna join us in a sec.

20.

Fox:

Gee, can I get me writing pad? Am I allowed to have that? Can I take notes during this, or...

21.

Levy:

I can take notes from you, make it a lot easier. I wouldn't have to sprain my wrist.

22.

Fox:

Actually, I was being serious, though.

23.

Levy:

Oh, were you?

24.

Fox:

Yes.

25.

Levy:

Uh, if you'd like, I, yeah.

26.

Fox:

But it's, it's in my laptop bag...

27.

Levy:

Sure.

28.

Fox:

...which you guys took.

29.

Levy:

We'll ask Lee, there, if you want to get that, sure.

30.

Heng:

[indiscernible].

31.

Fox:

Yes.

32.

Levy:

He wanted to get a notepad, as well.

33.

Heng:

Yes, of course [indiscernible] or do you have one?

34.

Fox:

I have one in my bag.

35.

Heng:

Okay.

36.

Fox:

Which...

37.

Heng:

Second one, perfect.

38.

Fox:

This one?

39.

Heng:

Yep.

40.

Heng:

Do you need a pen?

41.

Fox:

Nope.

42.

Heng:

Be right back.

43.

Fox:

Where shall I sit?

44.

Levy:

Ah, right there is great, if you don't mind.

45.

Heng:

Do you prefer [indiscernible]?

46.

Fox:

If I may, yes. Thank you.

47.

Levy:

Oh, I see. Sure. Have you met already, or?

48.

Heng:

Yeah. Just out there.

49.

Levy:

Oh, just, just out there.

50.

Heng:

[indiscernible].

51.

Levy:

Yeah. Oh, hi, my name's Dr. Levy and I'm a doctor. A psychiatrist, that's been asked to see you today.

52.

Fox:

Um-hmm. Jewish? Levy. I'm asking because I'm Jewish.

53.

Levy:

[laughs] [indiscernible]. Well, Levy is a Jewish name. That's for sure [condescending chuckle].

54.

Fox:

That's why I'm asking.

55.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

56.

Fox:

No, I'm asking if you're Jewish. 'Cause a lot of people...

57.

Levy:

Does it matter?

58.

Fox:

Well, yes because I would like you better if you were.

59.

Levy:

Okay. I'm afraid I have to admit I'm a bit of a mutt.

60.

Fox:

Alright.

61.

Levy:

Yeah. So, what would you prefer I address you as? Mr. Fox, or...

62.

Fox:

I don't care.

63.

Levy:

What's your first name?

64.

Fox:

Patrick.

65.

Levy:

Patrick. What … tell me what you prefer.

66.

Fox:

Um, I usually just go by Fox.

67.

Levy:

Okay. Just plain Fox?

68.

Fox:

Yep.

This is a basic rapport building tactic. The police do it all the time when they start their interrogation of you.

For most people, the name they go by is a huge part of their self-identity. It's amazing how much significance people put on their names. Particularly their "family name". Carrying on their parent's legacy and all that crap. Anyway, Levy asks what I prefer he address me as, and I tell him I don't care. Unlike most people, I know that a name is completely meaningless and arbitrary. Particularly if it's the name your parents gave you, as opposed to one you chose yourself. The only purpose of a name is to uniquely identify you from amongst a group of others.

And what is this nonsense, asking me my first name? It's right there in the fucking file. Moreover, he already addressed me as "Patrick" in the reception area just two minutes ago. Obviously, he knows my first name is Patrick. Again, this is a tactic, let me choose what to be called, give me a sense of control.

69.

Levy:

Fox, can I just find some information about you? Uh, well, starting off, how old you are?

70.

Fox:

Forty-five.

71.

Levy:

Where do you live?

72.

Fox:

Currently, the Belkin House. Homeless. I was released from custody December 30th. Um, I have no status in Canada. Can't work. And, uh, the court knew this but they imposed this probation condition anyway. And, I'm not allowed to leave British Columbia for three years.

73.

Levy:

Oh my gosh.

74.

Fox:

I'm in the process of trying to get that vacated so that I could return to the US, or something.

75.

Heng:

Mm-hmm.

76.

Fox:

Um.

77.

Heng:

Mm-hmm.

78.

Fox:

Look, I'll come right out and say this, I believe the reason the Crown wants this assessment is because they're hoping to get some kind of diagnosis that I have some mental illness --

79.

Levy:

Yeah.

80.

Fox:

Maybe, uh, delusions or something. Um. I have evidence to support all of the beliefs that I have --

81.

Levy:

Mm-Hmm.

82.

Fox:

Um, the thing about being a United States citizen, I have documentation from IRCC and CBSA that clearly shows that I was born in the United States and I have no status in Canada. That's all in my bag and on my laptop. Um, I have documents from IRCC showing that when I was deported to Canada, Homeland Security and the Canadian Consulate scribbled out and changed the information that I had put on the travel document application.

83.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

84.

Fox:

In order to get the, uh, travel document. So, he can go ahead and scream and say "Mr. Fox is delusional, he's crazy, he has no idea what he's talking about", but I have evidence.

Let's not pussyfoot around and play grab ass all morning. Get right to the fucking point, so we can get this over with.

The prosecutor and judge on the criminal harassment case knew I intended to publish all the proof of the corruption and bullshit antics that went on at that trial, so I suspected this whole psych assessment requirement was just so they could get a false diagnosis of some mental illness which could then be used to discredit my claims of corruption and misconduct.

The IRCC and CBSA documentation I refer to here is my FOSS report. And the documents where IRCC (or Global Affairs Canada or ICE) scribbled out the information I provided and replaced it with the information for the Ricky Riess who was born in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada are:

the Canadian application for an emergency travel document (ETD) which I filled out on 2011-03-01, because ICE told me to, while I was in their custody ETD application, dated 2011-03-01;
which they then completely replaced on 2011-08-16, with an application they completely filled out and I wasn't even aware of ETD application, dated 2011-08-16;
then another ETD application which I filled out on 2013-01-08, again because ICE told me to ETD application, dated 2013-01-08;
and then yet another ETD application which I, yet again, filled out because ICE told me to when I was, yet again, being detained by them ETD application, dated 2013-03-25.

85.

Levy:

Mm, what's IRCC?

86.

Fox:

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

87.

Levy:

Okay.

88.

Fox:

Used to be called Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Um, and my beliefs about my ex-wife, the court said that, um, my belief that she's a white supremacist and a racist are based only on two comments that she had made over a six or seven year period but that's incorrect. The evidence I submitted to the court was just those two pieces because that's the only evidence that I had. But I also lived with her for a year and a half...

89.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

90.

Fox:

...and was married to her for a number of years.

91.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

92.

Fox:

So, my belief is based on my first hand experience with her over that period of time.

93.

Levy:

That she's a...

94.

Fox:

She's very racist.

95.

Levy:

She's racist, uh-huh. Gosh, how'd you get involved with her in the first place?

96.

Fox:

A, mm, she was hot when she was young...

97.

Levy:

[chuckles]

98.

Fox:

I was 26, she was 19. Um...

99.

Levy:

And you guys were together for how long?

100.

Fox:

A year and a half.

101.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

102.

Fox:

But we had a child together.

103.

Levy:

Yeah.

104.

Fox:

I had custody of him. I raised him by myself. And she shows up in 2011. Takes him. Runs off to Arizona with him. I, we were living in Los Angeles.

105.

Levy:

Took her time, uh-huh. So you'd been separated for about how long before she came back and took your child away?

106.

Fox:

About nine years, I guess.

107.

Levy:

Oh my gosh, that's a long time. And, and how did she manage to do that?

108.

Fox:

I was in custody.

109.

Levy:

Oh.

110.

Fox:

I was in Homeland Security custody at the time.

111.

Levy:

And how come you were there?

112.

Fox:

Because they were trying deport me. They were accusing me of being an illegal alien from Canada and trying to deport me.

113.

Levy:

So how did they believe that you were illegal --

114.

Fox:

They --

115.

Levy:

-- but --

116.

Fox:

-- they --

117.

Levy:

-- but how did --

118.

Fox:

-- they didn't believe. They knew who I was --

119.

Levy:

Yeah, um...

120.

Fox:

There's no question, I mean, if - if they believed that I was a Canadian citizen, they wouldn't have had to modify the documents or forge the documents.

Oh, my God! I am so tired of having this same conversation, over and over and over.

I say the US deported me to Canada. You say, then the US must think you're a Canadian citizen because the US wouldn't deport a US citizen to Canada. And I say, well clearly they do. And you say, but they can't deport a US citizen. And I say, they're not legally permitted to do it, but they can actually do it.

The police are not legally permitted to search your car without probable cause, but guess what? They actually do it every day! A probation officer is not allowed to falsely tell the court you failed to report for probation as required, in order to get a warrant for your arrest, but guess what? That is exactly what they did to me in 244069-10-BC. And the court is not legally permitted to find a person guilty of violating probation by failing to take down a website, when that website wasn't even online, but guess what? They also did that in 244069-10-BC. And, a person "can not", legally, be found guilty of violating a probation order for conduct he engaged in when he wasn't even on probation, but guess what? That is exactly what happened in 244069-6-B. And the Court of Appeal is not legally permitted to completely ignore every one of the defendant's arguments and basically copy/paste the Prosecution's arguments into their Reasons for Judgment, but guess what? That is exactly what the BCCA did in my appeal of 244069-6-B.

It amazes me how many people are so naive, they think just because law enforcement, prosecutors, and judges aren't legally permitted or authorized to do something, that they simply don't do it.

And I really wish that you guys would let me bring my laptop in here so I could show you these documents rather than me just saying it. It's one thing for a person to say, oh I have evidence --

121.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

122.

Fox:

-- to support what I'm saying, but any delusional or crazy person would say that.

123.

Levy:

Mm-hmm. So you've got some documentation that shows that they had changed ... what, what did they actually, did they change?

124.

Fox:

Um, on the, uh, application for an emergency travel document, which is essentially a Canadian passport application --

125.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

126.

Fox:

-- it asks where you were born, uh, which country, et cetera. And so, on there I put US, um, they scribbled that out and they wrote Canada on it.

127.

Levy:

And what about for the place of birth, uh, for, usually you put a city or [indiscernible].

128.

Fox:

I think on one of the times, I put the, the state. Um, another time I just put US because it didn't matter which city or state I was born in --

129.

Levy:

No, I...

130.

Fox:

-- the fact is, I was born outside of Canada therefore --

131.

Levy:

Right.

132.

Fox:

-- it doesn't matter where. Um.

133.

Levy:

So, so where were you born?

134.

Fox:

Florida.

135.

Levy:

What, but what part of Florida?

136.

Fox:

Is it relevant?

137.

Levy:

Mm, just wondering.

138.

Fox:

Okay.

139.

Levy:

It's a big state.

I suspect Levy is probing because most delusional people have beliefs but they can't provide sufficient detail or background to support those beliefs. A delusional person might say they were born in Florida, but then be unable to provide a birth certificate.

In this case, I am the one trying to show my birth certificate and Levy is the one trying to avoid letting me show it ¶780-794; ¶803-811.

I'm a little weary of providing him unnecessary information about myself from prior to the time the Homeland Security and the Canadian authorities already have (i.e. 1996), because I don't know how cooperative he will be with the Prosecutor and/or the Court. And as you can see from the Psychiatric Assessment Report he provided to the probation department, he freely disclosed what I had said to him. So much for doctor/patient confidentiality.

140.

Fox:

Mm-hmm. Well now, given that I've already stated that I believe the purpose of this is to try to get something that the Crown can use against me --

141.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

142.

Fox:

-- obviously I'm not going to be any more cooperative than I need to in --

143.

Levy:

Okay.

144.

Fox:

-- order to comply with the probation.

145.

Levy:

Sure, sure. Well you, you know, we do what we can. Maybe there's nothing we can do to be of help. We're just, probably more … is there any, any, anything that we can do to be of help to you? Uh, not necessarily offering a diagnosis to, uh, to Crown, uh. That's kind of irrelevant for our purposes...

146.

Fox:

Mm.

147.

Levy:

I, I don't know if there's anything we can help you with.

148.

Fox:

I don't believe that there is anything that you can help me with --

149.

Levy:

No.

150.

Fox:

-- I believe that I'm psychologically stable. I have no mental illnesses that I would be aware of.

151.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

152.

Fox:

Um, but then again, somebody who did have mental illnesses would say that anyway.

153.

Levy:

H-, How are you, well here you are, in Canada, you're --

154.

Fox:

I can't leave.

155.

Levy:

-- so effectively homeless. So, you're --

156.

Fox:

Yes.

157.

Levy:

-- in a shelter right now. How are you supporting yourself?

158.

Fox:

Um, I have some money that I borrowed.

159.

Levy:

So what, is it like, it's not really savings, it's borrowed money...

160.

Fox:

No, my savings is all gone.

161.

Levy:

Uh, right.

162.

Fox:

Because when I was arrested I had automatic, automatic transfers setup to put money into my son's account every week, for support and such.

163.

Levy:

Yeah.

164.

Fox:

Um, and then, over the time that I was in custody, eventually that drained out my, uh...

165.

Levy:

I see.

166.

Fox:

accounts.

167.

Levy:

So it's borrowed money now.

168.

Fox:

Yes.

169.

Levy:

That's kind of rough. What do you do when that runs out?

170.

Fox:

Don't know.

171.

Levy:

Oh. Any idea how long you can survive on what you have left?

172.

Fox:

Not long.

173.

Levy:

Are you illegible for any kind of income supplement, here in Canada?

174.

Fox:

I don't believe so. I've applied for social assistance because the probation officer suggested that I should, um, I explained the story to them. They said that they need to check with IRCC and CBSA to verify my status. Um --

175.

Levy:

Yeah.

176.

Fox:

-- they were supposed to call me back on this Monday --

177.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

178.

Fox:

-- to let me know what was going on with that. They didn't get back to me so I called and left, uh, a voice mail for them on Wednesday. I still haven't heard back from them. I'm sure that IRCC and CBSA are probably not being cooperative with them and that's why it's --

179.

Levy:

M'kay. No problem.

180.

Fox:

Um, IRCC and CBSA, I believe, uh, are not going to admit that they made any kind of mistake. They're not going to acknowledge that they allowed somebody who is not a Canadian citizen to be deported here.

181.

Levy:

To be back in Canada...

182.

Fox:

Right. And when I'd spoken with CBSA myself, while I was still in custody, because I was expecting they would deport me once I get released, they said that as far as they're concerned I have status and they're not going to deport me. I asked them to clarify what they mean by "have status" and they wouldn't. They just said "As far as we're concerned you have status. That's it. We're not going to deport you. We're not doing anything."

183.

Levy:

Mm.

184.

Fox:

So, their position is, um, I guess, well my assumption is that their position is, um, they're not going to do anything. They're just going to ignore the fact that I'm here.

185.

Levy:

Could be a [indiscernible], well clearly you're living in Canada right now but, uh, have you lived in Canada in the past before?

186.

Fox:

No.

187.

Levy:

No. So they brought you back, brought you to Canada and, you've never been here before?

188.

Fox:

They deported me here in 2013, February 2013. I returned to Los Angeles in March, for a, uh, family court hearing. My ex-wife called Homeland Security again, told them I was there and they came to the courthouse, arrested me, and deported me here again, a second time. At that point, I decided I was going to stay here until I got all of my documentation --

189.

Levy:

Right.

190.

Fox:

-- so I wouldn't continue to have these problems. Got my documentation, but then I decided I was starting to like it a bit. I got my firearms license.

191.

Levy:

Mm.

192.

Fox:

Decided to stay for a little while longer. 2016 I decided to return to, uh, Los Angeles. Crossed the border, CBS-, or not CBSA, uh, what are they called, CBP.

193.

Levy:

That's the American side of things, is it?

194.

Fox:

Yeah.

195.

Levy:

Yeah. Right.

196.

Fox:

It's Customs and Border Protection, or Border Patrol.

197.

Levy:

Yeah, uh-huh.

198.

Fox:

Um, stopped me, questioned me. Checked in the computer. Saw that I had problems with Homeland Security before. Brought me into secondary. Uh, investigated. Saw that I wasn't actually violating any laws. I didn't break any laws by crossing the border.

199.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

200.

Fox:

So then they handed me over to ICE, that's Immigration and Customs Enforcement. They held me for a couple of weeks. Tried to get the RCMP to request that I be sent back here so that that way they could release me without having to, um, without having to admit they did anything wrong and - well, how can I say it? I don't want to sound paranoid. Um, since they had no -, well they had legal authority to arrest and detain and deport me because of a removal order from the Immigration Court, however since they already know that I'm a US citizen, um, they don't really have any legal justification for doing it. So, they tried - and I've got emails to support all of this as well. Um, they tried to get the RCMP to request that I be sent back here so that that way rather than trying to get the travel documents from the Canadian Consulate again, they could just bring me to the border and hand me over to the RCMP. And the RCMP said "He hasn't done anything wrong. We have no basis to seize his firearms license or arrest him or anything."

201.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

202.

Fox:

That went back and forth a bit and then eventually Homeland Security brought me to Peace Arch Park, asked CBSA to contact the RCMP about it. The RCMP came down, arrested me for uttering threats which was completely bogus. Later changed that to criminal harassment because of the website I created about my ex-wife. And then that led to the two and a half years in custody.

203.

Levy:

Oh my gosh, that's a long time. O-, originally, was that a land crossing when you went, were going to go back down there or, yeah.

204.

Fox:

Yeah.

205.

Levy:

Okay. So, uh, you were in custody and you got out in December.

206.

Fox:

December 30th I was released. My sentence ended.

207.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

208.

Fox:

But I still have three years probation.

209.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

210.

Fox:

Which is why I'm here.

211.

Levy:

Belkin House, that's kind of short term.

212.

Fox:

Yep. 30 days. Expires on the 29th, I guess Tuesday?

213.

Levy:

That's next week.

214.

Fox:

Yep.

215.

Levy:

What are you...

216.

Fox:

What am I going to do beyond that point?

217.

Levy:

Yeah.

218.

Fox:

Don't know yet.

219.

Levy:

No ideas, eh?

220.

Fox:

Nope.

221.

Levy:

The...

222.

Fox:

And I have three years of this to look forward to.

223.

Levy:

Any possibility that you can lengthen your stay there, or?

224.

Fox:

I can inquire.

225.

Levy:

Yeah. What's it like living there?

226.

Fox:

I don't know. I mean, what's the point of reference? What do I compare --

227.

Levy:

I don't know, I guess this is... [condescending chuckling]

228.

Fox:

-- it to? My own apartment? Or jail?

229.

Levy:

Well, I guess compared to what you're used to, I suppose.

I hate when people ask such stupid questions! What do you mean "what's it like"? Are you asking my opinion of it? Are you asking what the daily routine is? Are you asking what the amenities are? The policies? What the fuck is he asking me?

The purpose of communication is the useful exchange of information, and I just don't see how there could possibly be any useful information gleaned from my opinion of "what it's like" staying in a homeless shelter.

Oh, right, he's a psychiatrist. His job is to get me talking because the thinks all can be revealed by the responses I provide. Unless, of course, I've read the same textbooks and articles he has, in which case I would know what he's looking for. But, of course, most people think that only a person formally trained in a particular field could possibly have knowledge of the particular field.

And he really has to stop with that condescending chuckle. I don't think he realizes how insulting it is.

230.

Fox:

Um, compared to jail, it's better because I can smoke, I can come and go as I want. Um, compared to my own apartment?

231.

Levy:

Yeah.

232.

Fox:

Obviously.

233.

Levy:

Yeah. Hmm. How is it-, what was it like in, two and a half years, did you say, in jail?

234.

Fox:

Yes.

235.

Levy:

What was that like? Where did you serve that time?

236.

Fox:

A year and a half at North Fraser and then one year at, uh, Fraser.

237.

Levy:

And how was that for you?

238.

Fox:

I don't really have an opinion.

239.

Levy:

No? Had you been in custody before? Well, you mentioned some of it once...

240.

Fox:

In the US.

241.

Levy:

Yeah.

242.

Fox:

Four years. Homeland Security was bouncing me around from one place to another. They would charge me with stuff just so they could give me to another agency and delay the process.

243.

Levy:

Yeah. I guess you really had the run around there. So you're not sure what you're gonna do, so you're, you're kinda stuck here, right now. I'm assuming that you've done some kind of work before.

244.

Fox:

I was working while I was here, previously.

245.

Levy:

Yeah.

246.

Fox:

Um, legally I'm not allowed to work. I don't have a social insurance number --

247.

Levy:

But do you have a --

248.

Fox:

-- or anything.

249.

Levy:

-- like an occupation, or --

250.

Fox:

Software Engineer.

251.

Levy:

Software. So you've got a pretty good job, or the ability to...

252.

Fox:

I have a good career. I have no job.

253.

Levy:

Pretty good career.

254.

Fox:

Um, I incorporated a business while I was here previously, and so I was working through that corporation.

255.

Levy:

Your own business. So were you doing okay with that?

256.

Fox:

Again, subjective. I don't know what you'd consider "okay".

257.

Levy:

Sure. Okay, I mean, were you able to provide yourself a comfortable living, I guess...

258.

Fox:

Yeah.

259.

Levy:

Yeah. Alright. How long did you do that for?

260.

Fox:

Are you asking how long was I a software engineer? Or how long was I --

261.

Levy:

How long were you self-employed, you, your own business --

262.

Fox:

Oh, um, I incorporated the business, I think it was Spring 2014.

263.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

264.

Fox:

Um, and while I was in custody it became defunct.

265.

Levy:

I see. Yeah. And how did you become a software engineer?

266.

Fox:

I, I don't understand the question.

267.

Levy:

Wha-, what was your education that led you --

268.

Fox:

Computer Science.

269.

Levy:

At? Which university did you go to?

270.

Fox:

Is it relevant?

271.

Levy:

Nah, I'm just wondering.

272.

Fox:

And --

273.

Levy:

[indiscernible] --

274.

Fox:

-- I don't, I, I don't mean to be rude --

275.

Levy:

-- it's, it's up to you

276.

Fox:

-- by asking if it's relevant --

277.

Levy:

I'm just kind of --

278.

Fox:

Um...

279.

Levy:

-- making, um, a little bit of conversation there.

280.

Fox:

Right.

281.

Levy:

-- just have an interest in you and your life, yeah.

282.

Fox:

Um...

283.

Levy:

Always like to find about people, how they end up where they ended up.

284.

Fox:

Um-hmm.

285.

Levy:

Sure.

286.

Fox:

I'd rather not say, though --

287.

Levy:

No --

288.

Fox:

-- because that --

289.

Levy:

Sure.

290.

Fox:

-- that --

291.

Levy:

No worries.

292.

Fox:

-- that is a point of my life prior to when I would like to disclose any information. Um, I don't think that it would be directly relevant to anything that we're trying to accomplish here today, --

293.

Levy:

Oh.

294.

Fox:

-- so...

295.

Levy:

Well, Fox [indiscernible] do you have a family history [indiscernible]?

296.

Fox:

Nope. And I'm not qualified for MSP because I have no status here. And there's no private health insurance in Canada.

297.

Levy:

Have you ever --

298.

Fox:

Which seems insane to me, but --

299.

Levy:

I'm assuming you must've have a family doctor at some point or other in your life.

300.

Fox:

Sure.

301.

Levy:

Ever had any serious medical problems? Uh...

302.

Fox:

No.

303.

Levy:

Accidents? Injuries? Of any --

304.

Fox:

No.

305.

Levy:

-- kind? Hospitalizations? For physical problems?

306.

Fox:

No.

307.

Levy:

Now a psychiatrist. A mental health professional. Ever met with a psychiatrist before?

308.

Fox:

No.

309.

Levy:

Ever been hospitalized for any mental health reasons?

310.

Fox:

No.

311.

Levy:

No?

312.

Fox:

I've been in a hospital, but I've never been, how can I say, um...

313.

Levy:

Admitted, or?

314.

Fox:

Well, I mean, for example I had a cyst on my tailbone.

315.

Levy:

Right.

316.

Fox:

Many, many years ago.

317.

Levy:

But that's really more of a medical reason.

318.

Fox:

Right.

319.

Levy:

Yes. A surgical reason --

320.

Fox:

For psychiatric or psychological issues, no, never, nothing.

321.

Levy:

An-, any problems in the past? With anxiety?

322.

Fox:

No.

323.

Levy:

Depression?

324.

Fox:

No.

325.

Levy:

You on any medication now?

326.

Fox:

No.

327.

Levy:

Ever been, in the past?

328.

Fox:

Well, just for having an ear infections, or I had, uh, prescription for Vicodin. But that was, like, 2001, 2002, somewhere around there. Um, no kind of antidepressants or antipsychotics, or anything to do with psychiatry.

329.

Levy:

Ever used any recreational drugs in the past?

330.

Fox:

I've done a little cocaine, way back in the day.

331.

Levy:

Yeah.

332.

Fox:

But then again, in LA, I mean, everybody drinks and drives and does a little cocaine.

333.

Levy:

[chuckles] Okay. Marijuana? [indiscernible]

334.

Fox:

I tried marijuana when I was a teenager --

335.

Levy:

Yeah, yeah.

336.

Fox:

I don't like it.

337.

Levy:

Any other, crystal meth, anything like that, or any of the --

338.

Fox:

No.

339.

Levy:

-- narcotics?

340.

Fox:

I've been around tweakers.

341.

Levy:

Okay.

342.

Fox:

[indiscernible].

343.

Levy:

The cocaine would have been about how long ago?

344.

Fox:

Oh, goodness, 12, 15 years ago.

345.

Levy:

Oh, okay. What was the root you used, uh, snorting it, uh...

346.

Fox:

Oh, snorting, yeah.

347.

Levy:

Okay. You ever into IV drugs?

348.

Fox:

No.

349.

Levy:

How's you physical health, these days?

350.

Fox:

I'm not sure how to answer that.

351.

Levy:

Are you --

352.

Fox:

I seem to be in fine health.

353.

Levy:

You have any --

354.

Fox:

Um...

355.

Levy:

Physical complaints of any kind?

356.

Fox:

I have a pinched nerve between the 5th and 6th vertebrae that I got while I was in custody. The health care in custody sucks, um, so they just try to push it off as long as they can. It pretty much healed itself for a while, but then started acting up again a few months ago. Um...

357.

Levy:

And what kind of physical symptoms does that give you?

358.

Fox:

When I hold my head normally, like straight like this, I guess the vertebrae are pushing closer together --

359.

Levy:

Right.

360.

Fox:

-- so after a few moments my ton-, my thumb starts to get tingly --

361.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

362.

Fox:

-- and pins and needles. Um...

363.

Levy:

In both, or...

364.

Fox:

Just this one.

365.

Levy:

Left hand.

366.

Fox:

Other than that, nope.

367.

Levy:

No? Any other aches and pains and...

368.

Fox:

Just general old age stuff. Arthritis, and...

369.

Levy:

How do you sleep these days?

370.

Fox:

Fine, I suppose.

371.

Levy:

Yeah? About, approximately how many hours would you get a night?

372.

Fox:

Seven.

373.

Levy:

Okay. That's fine.

374.

Fox:

I usually get a wake up call for six, so that --

375.

Levy:

Yeah.

376.

Fox:

-- way I can shower and such, before everyone else at the, uh, shelter gets up.

377.

Levy:

With th-, the amount of sleep you get, uh, enough energy, uh --

378.

Fox:

Yeah.

379.

Levy:

-- to do what you want to do during the day? How's your appetite?

380.

Fox:

No different than ever.

381.

Levy:

Yeah? Weight, uh...

382.

Fox:

Consistent. 130.

383.

Levy:

Pretty, uh, pretty, pretty stable then? And I've asked you, in the past, you've never had any problems, you know, given the situation where you find yourself in, I don't know, I might be kind of nervous or uptight, at Belkin shelter, staying there all the time. How 'bout you? And the neighborhood?

384.

Fox:

It's pointless and futile to worry about things that are beyond your control --

385.

Levy:

Yeah.

386.

Fox:

-- so, I wouldn't bother.

387.

Levy:

Or, are, does anybody give you any trouble down there?

388.

Fox:

No.

389.

Levy:

You picked on at all, or --

390.

Fox:

No.

391.

Levy:

Hassled? Threatened?

392.

Fox:

No. Never had any problems the whole time I was in jail either.

393.

Levy:

No?

394.

Fox:

Got along fine with everybody. I was a unit cleaner.

395.

Levy:

Were you? Had a, got a little job there, to --

396.

Fox:

Yep.

397.

Levy:

How do you pass your time now?

398.

Fox:

Um, well I've got my appeal of my criminal case, and this probation thing.

399.

Levy:

Yeah.

400.

Fox:

That takes up a bit of time. Um, other personal interests or pursuits.

401.

Levy:

You got any, uh, any friends here in, in Canada?

402.

Fox:

No.

403.

Levy:

No?

404.

Fox:

Don't know any, well, I mean I have people that I knew while I was living here --

405.

Levy:

Yeah.

406.

Fox:

-- before, associates and --

407.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

408.

Fox:

-- co-workers and such.

409.

Levy:

Ya-huh.

410.

Fox:

Um, never kept in touch with anybody after I was arrested, um...

411.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

412.

Fox:

Have no friends or social associations in Canada.

413.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

414.

Fox:

Have no interest in making any. Don't want to be here any longer than I have to. Soon as this one probation condition that I not leave British Columbia is removed, or the appeal is done, and uh, the probation is vacated, I have every intention of leaving Canada within 24 hours.

415.

Levy:

And returning to the States.

416.

Fox:

Or somewhere else.

417.

Levy:

Or somewhere else. So you're in the process of appealing this now, I, I just heard you --

418.

Fox:

Yes.

419.

Levy:

That sounds like a big process. You got any legal help for that or you taking that on yourself?

420.

Fox:

I'm doing it myself, um, much of the appeal is based on claims of ineffective assistance of counsel, for the lawyer that was imposed on me against my will, at the trial to do the cross-examination of the complainant, who is my ex-wife.

421.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

422.

Fox:

Um, there are mounds and mounds of evidence that he and the prosecutor were colluding to suppress evidence, um, and admit perjured testimony by my ex-wife. Um, again, I don't want to sound delusional or paranoid, there's evidence to support all of it, um, I'm currently working on the affidavit for it. Um, let's see, what else...

423.

Levy:

Can I just ask you d-, uh --

424.

Fox:

Sure.

425.

Levy:

It was an oversight on my part. I didn't look at your, the charge, wh-, what was the conviction of the charge --

426.

Fox:

Criminal harassment and possession of a firearm in a place not authorized. The firearms charge, it just means that my ATT, my Authorization to Transport, um, authorized me to possess my firearms in certain places, um, the Crown alleged that, they said that I shipped my firearms to the US. I said that I brought them down to the US. There was nothing illegal about it, but, uh, their allegation was that in order to ship them I had to transport the firearms from my apartment to the shipping place. And I wasn't authorized to have them at the shipping place. There was absolutely no evidence at all that I ever had any of my firearms, at all, aside from a rifle but that wasn't restricted so it didn't, the ATT didn't apply to that. But I was found guilty on that, nonetheless. Um, and the criminal harassment was mostly about a website that I created about my ex-wife. They also tied in email communication between my ex-wife and I. But what they did, uh, they ignored all of the emails prior to 2014 so, while I was still in Los Angeles, uh, two or three years that she was causing problems for me and being belligerent and fighting with me all the time. Um, they didn't bring up any of that even though I wanted them to because that background would have been critical because it would have shown the jury that for years I was putting up with all of this nonsense from her. Um, so instead, what ended up being presented to the jury was a scenario that made it seem like she hadn't done anything wrong at all and here I am giving her all this hard time.

427.

Levy:

All this, all this trouble and [indiscernible] it started off, obviously, there was a time with the two of you met and, um, clearly got along and got married, had a child. What went wrong in the relationship?

428.

Fox:

She got pregnant.

429.

Levy:

Yeah.

430.

Fox:

Um, I was 26. Didn't want to have kids at that point because I was too young and --

431.

Levy:

Right.

432.

Fox:

Didn't really have much interest in having kids --

433.

Levy:

Yeah.

434.

Fox:

But she got pregnant so it was out of my hands at that point. I agreed with whatever she wanted to do, uh, I would support that. Um, we separated about a year later.

435.

Levy:

Mm-hmm. How was that year that you were together?

436.

Fox:

Um, it was fine initially but, uh, she's the kind of person that there's always bad luck following her, um, there's bad circumstances all the time.

437.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

438.

Fox:

Um, so I got a little annoyed with that after a while, and then when she started using drugs again I decided the relationship was over.

439.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

440.

Fox:

Um, so we separated. She took our son to, uh, Phoenix. We were living in Los Angeles at the time. And then she took off to go back to Florida. Left our son in Phoenix with her mother, so I went to Phoenix, got our son. Brought him back to Los Angeles. Applied for custody. Um, she --

441.

Levy:

And you got custody?

442.

Fox:

Well, by default because she came to see him one time then she went back to Florida. And never heard from her again after that. Um, and then, like I said, nine years later --

443.

Levy:

So, you, your son lived with you for nine years?

444.

Fox:

Yeah.

445.

Levy:

Uh, and she had gone off grid.

446.

Fox:

With no contact from her at all. Well, aside from like two phone calls --

447.

Levy:

Sure, yeah.

448.

Fox:

in 2006, 2007.

449.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

450.

Fox:

Um, and then she shows up in 2011. Uh, takes him. Runs off to Arizona with him. Takes three months, took me three months to get him back, through the family court.

451.

Levy:

Say, can I ask you how she managed to just, uh, to get him?

452.

Fox:

Well, because I was still in custody at the time. It was three weeks before I was released from Homeland Security custody.

453.

Levy:

And, and you were in custody then because?

454.

Fox:

The Homeland Security thing, when they were trying to deport me.

455.

Levy:

I got ya. Because they --

456.

Fox:

Um --

457.

Levy:

-- they didn't think you were a US citizen.

458.

Fox:

-- they claimed.

459.

Levy:

Claimed, yeah.

460.

Fox:

Um, and Gabriel, my son, was staying with my friend Liz, during that four year period, in Los Angeles. So then, Desiree, my ex-wife, went to Los Angeles just before I was released from custody, grabbed Gabriel and ran to Arizona with him. Tried to get custody, claiming that, uh, I had him from her for nine years. That issue came up, um, in the California family court shortly thereafter. The judge said it wasn't very credible because all she would have had to do, since we already had a family court matter in the Los Angeles court, all she would have had to do was contact the court and say, oh the father has absconded with the child. He asked her why she didn't do that. She said, oh I didn't know I was, I could have done that. Um, so the court ordered her to return him to me immediately.

461.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

462.

Fox:

And then she starts trying to delay it and she starts calling lawyers to see if there was some way that she could get around having to return him. Um, finally a lawyer told her, no, don't play any games with this, the court ordered you to do this so just do it. Um, and then a little over a year after that she calls Homeland Security, gets me arrested and detained, and that's when I ended up being deported to Canada and I lost custody of our son.

463.

Levy:

So your telling me that the, did she make up the story that you weren't from the, uh, US?

464.

Fox:

She didn't make it up, um, I mean, she, she exploited that. Um --

465.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

466.

Fox:

Because I'd already been ordered removed from --

467.

Levy:

Oh, okay.

468.

Fox:

-- well, there's more background --

469.

Levy:

Sure.

470.

Fox:

-- I mean, for it to make sense --

471.

Levy:

Yeah.

472.

Fox:

While I was in Homeland Security custody, one of the things that they charged me with was perjury and false claim of US citizenship. They said, if you just plead guilty to this then we'll request time served and you can be out of custody. And I said --

473.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

474.

Fox:

-- no I'm gonna fight this because this is, this is nonsense. Um, anyway I was found guilty of that nonetheless. Um, had a court appointed attorney and that's when I decided to start reading up on the law and representing myself.

475.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

476.

Fox:

Anyway, the Immigration Court then used that conviction as the basis, uh, to order me removed from the United States. Saying, well you were convicted of perjury and false claim of US citizenship, so obviously you're not a US citizen. Res judicata, once one court makes a determination based on some factual basis --

477.

Levy:

So that becomes a court thing.

478.

Fox:

-- of something, another court - Right --

479.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

480.

Fox:

-- another court can't make, uh, a ruling that would contradict that.

481.

Levy:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. So once one court says, this is the way it is, uh, they can't change it.

482.

Fox:

Yep. That's it. From that point forward, that is reality. Regardless of what the truth is. Um --

483.

Levy:

Well how do you, what do you do about that going forward? Do you, ultimately you'd like to return to the United States. Aren't you still gonna be faced with that problem in the future?

484.

Fox:

I don't know. I mean, that, that question calls for speculation.

485.

Levy:

It's alright. No problem.

486.

Fox:

Sorry. I mean, um, most of the times that I've gone back to the US since I've been up here, I've had no problems, uh, Homeland Security knows who I am now, um --

487.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

488.

Fox:

And just this, this one last time that, they made a big deal about it and...

489.

Levy:

What do you do for travel documents these days? Uh, they're so tight at the border these days.

490.

Fox:

Mm, they're really not. I have a US birth certificate and a BC driver's license.

491.

Levy:

That's all you need?

492.

Fox:

It's usually sufficient.

493.

Levy:

Uh-huh. No passport or anything like that?

494.

Fox:

Passport's only required if you fly, if you fly. If you're a US citizen, entering at that border tech-, technically, if you're a US citizen you don't even need to go through the, the checkpoint.

495.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

496.

Fox:

Um, the US government cannot legally bar a US citizen for entering the country and a US citizen can enter the United States from any --

497.

Levy:

Any point --

498.

Fox:

Any point at all.

499.

Levy:

-- without even [indiscernible] border crossing.

500.

Fox:

Right.

501.

Levy:

Theoretically.

502.

Fox:

Yeah.

503.

Levy:

Yeah. So... So you don't see that as a, as a problem.

504.

Fox:

I don't think that Homeland Security cares because they know who I am now, um, I think that my ex-wife is the only thing that cause any kinds of problems. My son now is, turned 18 in September. Um, I haven't heard from him since before I was arrested. Uh, I've tried to contact him since I've been out. I've --

505.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

506.

Fox:

-- sent an email to the email address that he had before I was arrested and I've sent a message to his Instagram account. Um, I haven't received any response to either, so...

507.

Levy:

That's kind of sad. Any idea what he's up to, or?

508.

Fox:

No. Uh, the last, the most recent information I've found on the internet is an Instagram post from November 2017.

509.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

510.

Fox:

And then nothing after that. Um, but you're a psychiatrist so you know about sociopathy, and so, um, think of a textbook case of that. That's my ex-wife.

511.

Levy:

But not your son.

512.

Fox:

Well, I don't think that my son is a sociopath.

513.

Levy:

No, I'm just wondering what he'd be, I guess he'd be either graduated or will be graduating soon.

514.

Fox:

He's in his last year of high school.

515.

Levy:

Last year.

516.

Fox:

Unless, of course, he failed. But he made the honor roll last year so I would --

517.

Levy:

[chuckles] Unlikely...

518.

Fox:

[indiscernible]

519.

Levy:

How'd you find out he made the honor roll?

520.

Fox:

On the internet.

521.

Levy:

Did you? So it's unlikely that, uh, that's happened so he'll be graduating this year.

522.

Fox:

I assume so.

523.

Levy:

Yeah. I wonder if he'll go on and do... I guess if he was on the honor roll he'll be eligible to go on to university or something like that.

524.

Fox:

Sure.

525.

Levy:

You miss him?

526.

Fox:

I don't really understand the question.

527.

Levy:

Alright.

528.

Fox:

Because "miss". I mean, I'm an engineer and a scientist --

529.

Levy:

[chuckles] Okay.

530.

Fox:

Um...

531.

Levy:

Would you --

532.

Fox:

I understand what emotions are. And I understand the physical sensations that people induce and --

533.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

534.

Fox:

-- but, to ask me if I "miss" something, or how I "feel" --

535.

Levy:

No? Do, do you get any of those emotional sensations on those kinds of topics?

536.

Fox:

No.

537.

Levy:

Not particularly. Would you la-, I bet you'd like to see him again though.

538.

Fox:

Yes, of course.

539.

Levy:

Yeah.

540.

Fox:

I have a duty to do everything that I can to raise him to the best of my abilities.

Every psychiatrist's (and psychologist's) favorite type of patient - one that understands emotions are just pysical sensations caused by the increased or decreased release of hormones (serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin).

The release of which is controlled by the brain. The emotion, itself, does not exist - just the physical sensation the person experiences as a result of fluctuations in the secretion of the hormones, then the person interprets those sensations as "emotions".

And the less rational of you will argue that it's the emotions that cause the increase of decrease in the hormones. But, of course, you're wrong - it's conditioning that causes the release of the hormones, you could say it's your subconscious. You experience sensations you call emotions because you don't know any better. Go read a book, for fuck sakes! (After you've read absolutely everything on this website, that is.)

Um, I'm completely incapable of doing that now, since the, [indiscernible], since, I can't phrase it as, because it's technically not correct to say that she had me deported, however she took very deliberate and strategic steps to, uh, cause my deportation to happen. And then I lost custody of him, and then she had control and, then it got harder and harder to have any contact with him, and then once I was arrested she completely cut off all contact.

541.

Levy:

Now I know you're, uh, from what you said, not an emotional guy but you must be pretty annoyed with her though.

542.

Fox:

Yes. Obviously. I despise her.

543.

Levy:

[chuckles] I wouldn't --

544.

Fox:

However, um, I'm not going to do anything illegal and I would never harm another person unless in self-defense --

545.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

546.

Fox:

-- or defense of another. Um, those are just some of my ethics.

547.

Levy:

Ethics.

548.

Fox:

Ethics.

549.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

550.

Fox:

My morals. My beliefs.

551.

Levy:

But my understanding, from what I've heard, people are concerned that you might do something to her.

552.

Fox:

Based on what?

553.

Levy:

I don't know, [indiscernible] --

554.

Fox:

Exactly.

555.

Levy:

[chuckles]

556.

Fox:

Um, if you take the Crown's position, what they did was they took some of the blog posts or some of the emails between us, they ignored all of the context, and looks o-, looked only at a couple of sentences --

557.

Levy:

Picked out a few things --

558.

Fox:

Yes.

559.

Levy:

-- out of much --

560.

Fox:

If you --

561.

Levy:

-- longer --

562.

Fox:

If you look at the blog post in it's entirety, or if you look at the email conversation in it's entirety --

563.

Levy:

Yeah.

564.

Fox:

Um, it's very innocuous. There's, there's no reason to believe that, uh, I would ever harm anybody or do anything to her.

565.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

566.

Fox:

And in fact, since I despise her so much I would get much more gratification out of knowing that her life is miserable because of her own actions. And the purpose of the website was to make it publicly known the kinds of things that she has done so that people wouldn't want to have anything to do with her. Not to cause her any harm directly.

567.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

568.

Fox:

Use her own actions against her.

569.

Levy:

Uh-huh. What kinds of things did you put on the website?

570.

Fox:

Um, about her lying in the family court, about her lying to the police, about coming to Los Angeles, grabbing our son who she'd only seen two times, um, and running off to another state with him. Um, her own Facebook posts where she's talking about, oh she's so happy she's got her son back, without any regard whatsoever for how that might affect him.

571.

Levy:

Yeah.

572.

Fox:

Um, about her filing false reports with Homeland Security in order to get me deported so that she could get custody of our son. Et cetera, et cetera.

573.

Levy:

And putting this on a website, uh, for others to see, I gather.

574.

Fox:

Of course.

575.

Levy:

Yeah.

576.

Fox:

If a person does horrible things to other people, um, then they shouldn't get upset when those people that they've affected --

577.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

578.

Fox:

-- uh, tell other --

579.

Levy:

Sure.

580.

Fox:

-- people the things that they've done. There's nothing on the website that was false. There's nothing that was embellished or...

581.

Levy:

So when you do this was there any consequences to you after she discovered that you had this website? What happened then?

582.

Fox:

Well, first she tried to get an order of protection. But an order of protection would have nothing to do with the website because I wasn't in the United States and the website wasn't hosted in the United States. Um, she, here's an example of delusional beliefs, um, she convinces herself that a US court would have the authority to compel somebody outside of the US to do something. Um --

583.

Levy:

Or to not do something against anyone --

584.

Fox:

Sure.

585.

Levy:

Yeah.

586.

Fox:

So she gets this order of protection, um, and then she gets mad and says I'm not complying with the order of protection. And I tell her, but I'm not in the United States and according to you, and according to the United States government I'm not a United States national, therefore they have no authority over me.

587.

Levy:

Um, and an order of protection, can you explain that to me, what that is?

588.

Fox:

Oh, that's a restraining order.

589.

Levy:

I see, uh, uh-huh.

590.

Fox:

The order of protection only prohibited me from contacting her or going around her home.

591.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

592.

Fox:

It had nothing to do with the website. Um, then she convinces herself that the order of protection is a first step that would be required, uh, to get an, or to get the hosting company to take the website down. But the website was hosted in Iceland. So a US order of protection, or even a direct order from a US court would mean nothing to a company in Iceland.

593.

Levy:

[indiscernible] maybe it was the United States they could do something.

594.

Fox:

If it was in the United States, but --

595.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

596.

Fox:

-- even still, the order of protection wouldn't compel, uh, a US hosting provider to take the website down. What they would need is an order from the court, telling them to take the website down.

597.

Levy:

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

598.

Fox:

Um, so she makes up these beliefs and then she clings to them and even though all of the proof is to the contrary she continues to, to --

599.

Levy:

Now --

600.

Fox:

-- cling to them.

601.

Levy:

Wh-, what is she saying, her, her reasoning for wanting this all taken down, or?

602.

Fox:

Before we proceed with that --

603.

Levy:

Oh, sure.

604.

Fox:

Um, can I get some water?

605.

Levy:

Oh, of course.

606.

Fox:

I have a little tickle in my throat.

607.

Levy:

No worries.

608.

Fox:

Your question was, uh --

609.

Levy:

I was just wondering, what was her, uh, was there some fear? What was her … like how come she --

610.

Fox:

I don't --

611.

Levy:

-- what was her motivation?

612.

Fox:

I don't believe that she wanted the website taken down at all --

613.

Levy:

No?

614.

Fox:

-- because, for example, after I was arrested, I was incapable of responding to emails.

615.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

616.

Fox:

All she would have had to do was file a complaint with the hosting provider. Um, the hosting provider then would have sent an email to me --

617.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

618.

Fox:

-- asking me to respond. I wouldn't be able to since I'm in jail.

619.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

620.

Fox:

And then they would have suspended the account. But they didn't do that. Um, the one complaint that she did file with any kind of hosting provider was to the domain registrar, not to the website hosting provider. The domain registrar was saying, well this is an issue with the website, it's got nothing to do with the domain name and we're the wrong company. But then she never filed another complaint with the hosting company after that. So, in her typical fashion, what she did was a few minor steps to make it seem like she was doing something to get the website taken down, but they were all the wrong things. Kind of like getting the order of protection --

621.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

622.

Fox:

In...

623.

Levy:

She went about it the wrong way.

624.

Fox:

Right. And made no attempt to actually do it the right way.

625.

Levy:

Uh-huh. And which, again, would have been? What, which could she have done, the right way was to contact the...

626.

Fox:

Well, once I was arrested and I couldn't respond to emails she could have contacted the hosting provider in Iceland and filed a complaint with them. Thank you.

627.

Heng:

Uh-huh.

628.

Levy:

So how did, from there where did it go? Uh, so there was the website and --

629.

Fox:

Well --

630.

Levy:

-- troubles with that. How did it proceed from there?

631.

Fox:

Well, uh, when she got the order of protection and then that ended up doing nothing. Um, so then she went to the news media. The US news media didn't care because they saw that, um, everything on the website was true and all that I'm doing is just telling everybody about the horrible stuff that this horrible woman has done. But then she goes to CBC. Apparently, CBC is a very feminist organization, and so a journalist at CBC, uh, decided to run with the story. They interviewed both of us. Um, from an hour and a half interview with me, they took about a minute and a half of footage, um, that they could distort to make it seem a certain way. So then they ran the story that made it seem like she was this poor, helpless woman, who had never done anything wrong and I'm just this angry ex-husband who --

632.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

633.

Fox:

-- is mad because she left me or whatever reason, or because she, um, got custody of our son and I wasn't happy with the court proceedings. Um --

634.

Levy:

Say, can I ask you for a moment --

635.

Fox:

Sure.

636.

Levy:

How come you agreed to be interviewed by CBC?

637.

Fox:

Even if I didn't, I mean, they still would have ran the story.

638.

Levy:

Yeah.

639.

Fox:

Um --

640.

Levy:

You didn't want to be interviewed by me, let alone CBC [chuckles].

641.

Fox:

Well, the difference is, if you provide the Crown a diagnosis that I have some kind of mental disorder --

642.

Levy:

Mm.

643.

Fox:

-- then that goes on my record --

644.

Levy:

I see.

645.

Fox:

-- then that, the Crown would use that to discredit me. Now the Crown knows, or they should know by now, that I have all of this evidence to prove all of this stuff that they did. I've got the RCMP, or the recordings of the RCMP interviews, where my ex-wife is laughing and joking with them. Which should have proven that the Crown and the RCMP should have known that she was full of crap, that she wasn't really afraid for her safety. Um --

646.

Levy:

So where did it reach the point though that comes out that she's afraid for her safety, so that would lead to...

647.

Fox:

Like I bring up in the appeal --

648.

Levy:

Uh-huh. Yeah.

649.

Fox:

-- in my affidavit, um, there was no claims of being afraid for her safety until after she spoke to the news media, uh, in January 2016. I suspect either what happened was the journalist from CBC kind of coached her on, uh, what to say about that, or after the news story ran she probably got a bunch of emails from people telling her, oh well say like this and act this way.

650.

Levy:

Mm-hmm. And she wh-, what did she say she was afraid of, uh...

651.

Fox:

Um, she was claiming that she was, well eventually, it, like, her claims of fear for her safety, uh, became more and more embellished as time went on, as she wasn't getting the response that she was seeking.

652.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

653.

Fox:

Until, eventually, she got to the point where she was saying that I openly and publicly stated on the internet that if I could get away with it that if I could get away with it I would kill her or murder her or shoot her or something. Um, and that all stems from one email, where I told her about a conversation that I had had with our son, Gabriel. He had asked me if I would shoot her. And then I explained to him about how, well, shooting somebody would be immoral and it would be wrong and you could go to prison for the rest of your life, um, and for those reasons I wouldn't do it, but I would have no qualms about shooting her. Because I despise her so much. However, the problem is, or I shouldn't say the problem, um, the fact remains it's still immoral and illegal. So, no matter how much somebody might want to do something, something is wrong so you don't do it.

654.

Levy:

On the one hand you may think to [indiscernible] --

655.

Fox:

There's lots of things that people want to do but they don't do it.

656.

Levy:

Y-, you think of something or might want to do it but there's o-, other reasons not to do it. Your, either your moral convictions, or it's against the law.

657.

Fox:

Yes.

I tell Levy that no matter how much a person might want to do something, they refrain from doing it because it's unethical or immoral or illegal. Wanting to do something doesn't necessarily mean that the person is going to act on that desire. Almost everybody ... no, I will say everybody ... has something they want to do, but they don't do it, because they know it's wrong.

Most of Desiree's supporters are so stupid, so simple minded, that they cannot distinguish between what a person wants to do and what that person actually would do. They are so moronic, they believe that because I hate Desiree, that means given the opportunity, I would murder her. They are just fucking complete idiots! These are the same morons that think just because a guy wants to have sex with some girl, that means given the opportunity he would rape her. Seriously! Look at the comments posted on Jezebel.com regarding me and the website.

658.

Levy:

Or a variety of --

659.

Fox:

And like I said in that very email --

660.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

661.

Fox:

Um, that that is not intended to be any kind of threat. I would never harm anybody, you or anyone else, unless it was in self-defense --

662.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

663.

Fox:

Um, and any time I ever made any reference to firearms, in any of the emails, to her, I was always very clear with her that I'm not saying this to be in any way kind-, any way threatening, I'm only mentioning it in passing or because you brought this up, or … Um --

664.

Levy:

So where did that lead to then? That was that, uh, that little statement, that you wouldn't have any qualms to --

665.

Fox:

Well, of course, um --

666.

Levy:

-- then what happened?

667.

Fox:

Okay, so, I published a blog post before the CBC story ran because the journalist at CBC told me some of the stuff that Capuano was saying. Um, and she told me that Capuano was claiming she was afraid for her safety, that I'm gonna sneak into the US and go down there with some of my registered firearms, which is, that in itself is ridiculous because if I was gonna go down there and harm her with firearms I wouldn't use the ones that are registered here in Canada, I would buy one in Arizona, where there is no registration or anything --

668.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

669.

Fox:

But, so I wrote a blog post about, explaining about how these allegations, or these claims are ridiculous. Um, that blog post, eventually the Crown then, tried to distort that into being, oh this is Mr. Fox's plan, this is what he intends to do. But if read the entire blog post you see I clearly state that the purpose of this post is sh-, is to show how ridiculous what she's claiming is. But anyway, um, when all of that was going on, uh, the RCMP had put a, um, put my PAL, my firearms license, into a restricted state so I couldn't purchase any additional restricted firearms, while they investigated, because the criminal harassment complaint. Once they concluded their investigation, they determined that there was no basis to, uh, revoke or, or suspend my, uh, my PAL. So everything went back to normal. That should tell you right there, obviously, there was no concern. Um, a few months later, though, I went back to the US and then, all of a sudden, they decided, oh this guy's gonna do something, we need to be worried.

670.

Levy:

RCMP or US?

671.

Fox:

R-, RC.

672.

Levy:

RCMP. And then what happened?

673.

Fox:

Then I was arrested for criminal harassment. They added some additional firearms charge init-, charges initially so I would be denied bail. Um, those all got dropped eventually, but...

674.

Levy:

And then was that, what ultimately led to your, your, uh, being incarcerated?

675.

Fox:

Yes. So, anyway, now you have pretty much the entire background.

676.

Levy:

Yeah. Have you ever been in trouble with the law before all this mess, or?

677.

Fox:

Define "in trouble".

678.

Levy:

Well, arrested?

679.

Fox:

Yes. Two DUIs in, uh, Los Angeles, 2002, 2003. But, in California a DUI is not a huge, serious deal like it is up here. I understand up here it's very strict and they take it very seriously. In LA everybody --

680.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

681.

Fox:

-- everybody has a DUI.

682.

Levy:

Have you ever been aggressive to another person --

683.

Fox:

No.

684.

Levy:

-- or harmed anybody else. No?

685.

Fox:

Never assaulted anybody. Never threatened anybody. Never attempted to use any kind of force against anybody.

686.

Levy:

So, cut me, it, it seems to me, I guess if they're looking for some delusion, it really revolves around your citizenship [chuckles].

687.

Fox:

Mm-hmm. And as I've said, I've got documentation to support what I'm saying --

688.

Levy:

Yeah.

689.

Fox:

-- on my laptop. Well, actually, I've got some printouts of it as well --

690.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

691.

Fox:

-- um, that I received from IRCC and CBSA through Freedom of Information requests. Clearly states on there I was born in the United States of America. Um, so...

692.

Levy:

Do you have any family still, uh, around?

693.

Fox:

No. Parents are dead.

694.

Levy:

Parents. Siblings?

695.

Fox:

Never kept in touch with any family. Ran away from home when I was 14. Had an uncomfortable childhood, um, my grandparents eventually got back in touch with me. They helped me out --

696.

Levy:

Okay.

697.

Fox:

-- um, they helped me to go to university, et cetera, but, uh, had no interest in having any contact with my parents.

698.

Levy:

An-, any, any siblings?

699.

Fox:

Not that I'm aware of.

700.

Levy:

So you ran at home at the age of 14?

701.

Fox:

Yes.

702.

Levy:

Where did life take you to then?

703.

Fox:

I'd rather not get into --

704.

Levy:

Okay.

705.

Fox:

-- the details of that aspect...

706.

Levy:

'Cause I'm just thinking well if you ran away from home there must have been a period of time that you're away from school and obviously you went back again and were --

707.

Fox:

It was difficult --

708.

Levy:

-- successful.

709.

Fox:

-- a lot of times, staying at friends' places. Um, for a period of time I would rent a room, like in a rooming house, or a room in someone's house of something. Um, it was difficult, but I made it through.

710.

Levy:

Well, it sounds that way, yeah. It sounds like you did alright for yourself. And you became a software engineer. That seems like a pretty good occupation these days.

711.

Fox:

More so in the US than in Canada. I mean, the pay is much better down there.

712.

Levy:

Uh-huh. So going forward, you're appealing?

713.

Fox:

Yep.

714.

Levy:

I don't know if you want to speculate. What if you're unsuccessful in your appeal.

715.

Fox:

Oh, I fully expect I'm going to be unsuccessful.

716.

Levy:

Do you?

717.

Fox:

Yes.

718.

Levy:

Then what?

719.

Fox:

Then I'm still gonna publish everything. I mean, regardless of what happens with the appeal, I've still got all of the evidence, all of the proof of, uh, the collusion, well I can't say that I have concrete proof of collusion. I have circumstantial proof of collusion between the defense attorney, Lagemaat, and the Crown attorney, Mark Myhre.

720.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

721.

Fox:

Um, so that's still gonna be published, either way. Um, when I eventually return to the US, the criminal harassment conviction's not gonna matter because everybody in the US looks at this and they think this is ridiculous, I mean what kind of country is gonna prosecute a person for simply giving back to this woman what she was doing to him? Um, consider, for example, they make this big deal about the fact that I create this website where I publish a bunch of true stuff about her, she goes to the news media, tells a bunch of lies, um, the news coverage here in Canada far outweighs the attention that the, before, the number of hits that the website got. Um, so she was essentially doing the same thing to me as I did to her with the website. Except I was telling the truth, she was lying. Um --

722.

Levy:

They believed her and didn't believe you.

723.

Fox:

Well, of course. I didn't realize at the time, um, that there's such a bias here in Canada. About a woman [indiscernible] if a woman makes an allegation, then it doesn't matter if the man is innocent or guilty, everybody just assumes that the woman is telling the truth. Um, what's amazing is on the website there was all this proof that what she was claiming was not true. Still, most people didn't want to hear it.

724.

Levy:

I was just thinking, the gun ownership must make things worse, though. Doesn't it? 'Cause guns always, well, especially here in Canada that's, uh, worrisome for some people, and guns...

725.

Fox:

Um, the Crown, obviously was trying to exploit that. They were adamant about keeping the firearms charge on there, even though there was no evidence. At the preliminary inquiry, I wanted the court appointed attorney to challenge that because there was no evidence to support the firearms charge, whatsoever. Um, he did absolutely nothing. He stood up immediately and said, oh we concede to the firearms charge. Again, why I decided to represent myself.

726.

Levy:

H-, how long have you owned firearms for?

727.

Fox:

Let's see, I'm 45. My first gun, I guess I was about 18 or 19.

728.

Levy:

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And how come you own guns?

I hate this question! And it gets asked so frequently. Why does a person need a reason to own firearms? They just assume if you own guns it's either to kill people or because you're paranoid and think you need to protect yourself from some major threat. Most people who own guns own them because guns are fun and they like guns, period, that's all. Most gun owners are not crazed, conspiracy freaks or gangsters. Most gun owners don't go around shooting people for no reason.

Sometimes people say, but guns are not essential, they're not necessary. Well, neither is an Xbox. But nobody ever asks, "How come you own an Xbox?" If you like archery and you regularly go to the archery range, nobody every asks "Well how come you own bows and arrows?"

Are you starting to see why I have such little patience for stupid people? There's just so many of them. And apparently, graduating medical school then completing a residency still doesn't ensure the person is actually intelligent.

729.

Fox:

I like guns.

730.

Levy:

Yeah. What, what do you use them for?

731.

Fox:

Shooting. Recreation. In the US I al-, also use them for defense.

732.

Levy:

Uh-huh. But here in, uh...

733.

Fox:

In Canada you're not allowed to, so.

734.

Levy:

No, no. Wh-, what kind of to --

735.

Fox:

Well, I can't say that you're not allowed to in Canada. You're allowed to use equal or lesser force. If somebody breaks into your home --

736.

Levy:

Sure.

737.

Fox:

-- with a gun, you're allowed to use a gun to defend yourself. The problem is, the storage laws, um, would require you to keep the ammunition separate from the gun --

738.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

739.

Fox:

-- it has to be locked up in a safe or some locked compartment, and have a trigger lock on it.

740.

Levy:

Uh-huh. In the United States that's not so?

741.

Fox:

No. In the United States I just keep one in my night table.

742.

Levy:

Yeah, yeah.

743.

Fox:

Um, if somebody were to break into my home --

744.

Levy:

Did that ever happen? --

745.

Fox:

-- in the middle of the night --

746.

Levy:

You ever have to... or if you didn't fire it at somebody, at least hold somebody at bay with it?

747.

Fox:

Um, there's no police records to support it one way or the other so I would say, officially, no. Um, the police saw that it was entirely justified when I was living in Phoenix, and so --

748.

Levy:

Sure.

749.

Fox:

-- they just said good for you.

750.

Levy:

And recreational --

751.

Fox:

I didn't kill him. Shot him in the shoulder.

752.

Levy:

Recreational use? What would that be for...

753.

Fox:

Target practice.

754.

Levy:

T-, target, like a range, or...

755.

Fox:

Yeah. I used to have a membership at the range in Port Coquitlam.

756.

Levy:

Okay. And what sort of guns have you had over the years?

757.

Fox:

Well, I was up here I had a Beretta 92FS. Do you know much about them?

758.

Levy:

No [indiscernible] a pistol of some kind?

759.

Fox:

Yes. The Beretta 92FS and the Beretta PX4 are both pistols. They're both 9 millimeters.

760.

Levy:

Yeah.

761.

Fox:

I had a, um, what was it a Browning 380, um, based on the design of the 1911 --

762.

Levy:

[indiscernible]

763.

Fox:

Another pistol, yeah. Uh, Ruger SR45, which is a 45 caliber pistol .

764.

Levy:

Mm-hmm.

765.

Fox:

Um, I had gotten a World War II Mauser rifle for my son, because he likes the antiques and the older ones.

766.

Levy:

Yeah.

767.

Fox:

In the US I had another Beretta 92FS. Uh, Springfield Armories 1911. An Astra A60, I guess it was, 380. Um, a Beretta 92. Ah, and a couple others. I can't remember, I mean, a shotgun, uh --

768.

Levy:

What happened to them all?

769.

Fox:

The ones in the US?

770.

Levy:

Oh, you've got some in the US.

771.

Fox:

I decline to comment on the ones in the US because of probation conditions and such.

772.

Levy:

Sure, but there might be some down in the US, I gather. Any here in Canada?

773.

Fox:

No. All of the Canadian ones, the handguns, were all registered and so the RCMP knew about them. The rifle wasn't registered because it wasn't required to be.

774.

Levy:

So again, if you're successful, though it sounds like you've got your doubts about it, uh...

775.

Fox:

Successful with?

776.

Levy:

Eh, with your appeal and being able to return to the United States, what's your plan? What are you gonna do with yourself?

777.

Fox:

I can't plan that far ahead because too much is up in the air at this point. Um, the reason that I doubt that I'm going to prevail on the appeal is because my experience, so far, with the justice system here in BC is that, in my opinion, there seems to be a lot of corruption. Um, the fact that, the fact that the Crown should have known my ex-wife was lying, as I've said there's the recordings of the RCMP interviews where she's laughing and joking. Um, but they proceeded with prosecuting the case anyway. I assume, because of the, uh, media coverage that it got. Um, and then they pushed to have this lawyer appointed to do the cross-examination, even though that would be 90% of the trial. Um, and then that lawyer refused to bring up, uh, all of this evidence from before, plus they refused to cross-examine her on her perjurious testimony. So, based on all of that and then based on the fact that at the sentencing the judge completely disregarded all of the evidence that I brought up about, uh, my ex-wife committing perjury at the trial, all of the mitigating factors, et cetera. So, it seems to me that, um, it seems to me that most likely, yes, I'm going to be, they're, they're just going to rule in favor, sorry.

778.

Levy:

So, if you're stuck here, would you be able to go back to work again?

779.

Fox:

Legally, no.

780.

Levy:

Even though these organizations claim you're Canadian.

781.

Fox:

Which organizations?

782.

Levy:

Well like the, what, the Canadian Border Services, the --

783.

Fox:

See, this is what I find fascinating is, I tell people that I was born in the United States, I have a United States birth certificate --

784.

Levy:

Yeah, yeah.

785.

Fox:

-- and the US authorities and the Canadian government both acknowledge I was born in the United States. I've got documentation --

786.

Levy:

Yeah.

787.

Fox:

-- from them to prove it, yet as you just said, these agencies claim that I'm Canadian. Which agencies are claiming I'm Canadian?

788.

Levy:

Y-, and I guess you don't have any identification to say your Canadian.

789.

Fox:

There is absolutely no documentation to say that I am Canadian, at all.

790.

Levy:

And, you're --

791.

Fox:

You're more than welcome --

792.

Levy:

No.

793.

Fox:

-- to grab my laptop bag and --

794.

Levy:

[condescending chuckles] I'm sure you can prove it, Fox [indiscernible].

You keep hearing me talk about how I keep trying to provide proof to support my claims, but the justice system participants keep refusing to allow me to do that. And you probably think, "Yeah, right. Why would they refuse to allow you to prove what you're claiming? That's just silly." Well, you can't get much clearer than this interaction!

By this point, I'm so fucking fed up with all this stupid nonsense of the justice system refusing to look at or consider physical evidence and, instead, insisting on relying only on witness testimony; and with this cock-knocker asshole's condescending chuckles and his refusal to let me get the documents from my laptop bag so I can show him that my beliefs and claims are based on the Canadian government's own records.

Why the fuck would he laugh and say "I'm sure you can prove it", but then not allow me to actually prove it? Do you not see how fucked up and demented this whole system is?

No, I'm just wondering, going forward. So you don't have a Social Insurance Number, or?

795.

Fox:

No.

796.

Levy:

No?

797.

Fox:

No interest in getting one. Um, Social Assistance had said that, um, they will see if there's some way that I could get a work permit or Social Insurance Number and I said to them, I don't want a work permit or a Social Insurance Number. I want to get kicked out of Canada. I want to go home. In fact, I don't even care which I go to. Even if the United States says, uh, oh we're not going to acknowledge that you're a US citizen, I don't care. Send me to Israel or somewhere.

798.

Levy:

But then you'd need a passport, wouldn't you?

799.

Fox:

I guess we'll have to deal with that at --

800.

Levy:

[chuckles] Okay, just wondering.

801.

Fox:

-- the time.

802.

Levy:

Yeah, yeah.

803.

Fox:

So why is it that yourself and, uh, the Crown and the courts and all of these people, never want to see proof to support what I'm saying? Every time I go to court and I say, well look, I've got proof here, to support the claims I'm making, "No, no, no, no, we don't want to see that."

804.

Levy:

I guess just in the interests of time, I mean, if you'd like to come back a-, another day --

805.

Fox:

It's in my bag, I mean --

806.

Levy:

And it sounds like it's gonna take a little bit of... wh-, wh-, would you like --

807.

Fox:

To pull a document out and show you --

808.

Levy:

-- to show us?

809.

Fox:

-- that the Canadian government clearly acknowledges I was born in the United States?

810.

Levy:

Mm. W-

811.

Fox:

That would take all of three seconds.

812.

Levy:

Well, if you'd like to-, can't see any reason why not, if you'd like to show us. Sure.

813.

Heng:

Yeah [indiscernible].

814.

Levy:

Yeah [indiscernible]

815.

Levy:

You've got it on paper there. I thought it was going to be on your laptop.

816.

Fox:

I have a scanned copy on [indiscernible]. There's the cover letter so you can even see what it was I was requesting from them. All records pertaining to Richard Riess and/or Patrick Fox, same person.

817.

Levy:

That's another name of yours?

818.

Fox:

I changed my name to Richard Riess --

819.

Levy:

Oh.

820.

Fox:

-- back in the '90s.

821.

Levy:

Uh-huh.

822.

Fox:

And you see what that says on there? Country of birth?

823.

Levy:

But it, it's citizenship "unknown" but country of birth is "United States".

824.

Fox:

Yes. CBSA, same thing. In fact, CBSA is just using the information from IRCC.

825.

Levy:

This is the same thing, isn't it?

826.

Fox:

Yep. But what it's showing, what I'm showing you is that CBSA is getting the same information that IRCC is using. They're just relaying --

827.

Levy:

These are the same two documents, are they not?

828.

Fox:

Yeah, but see, this one's from CBSA, and that one's from IRCC.

829.

Levy:

Oh, I see.

830.

Fox:

I submitted a Freedom of Information request to both agencies.

831.

Levy:

And again, for my, excuse me for my ignorance, CBSA that's Canadian?

832.

Fox:

Yeah. Canada Border Services Agency.

833.

Levy:

And AF --

834.

Fox:

IRCC is --

835.

Levy:

Is US --

836.

Fox:

No, no. IRCC is Immigration, Refugees and Citizeship-, Citizenship Canada.

837.

Levy:

So, according to their, uh, this, this piece of information they see you as being born in, uh, the States.

838.

Fox:

Yes.

839.

Levy:

Although they don't give a place of birth, eh.

840.

Fox:

No, because that, that would not be relevant.

841.

Levy:

Okay. [grunt] Hmm. An-, any other support that, you don't have a birth certificate?

842.

Fox:

I do have a birth certificate.

843.

Levy:

You do?

844.

Fox:

From Florida.

845.

Levy:

Yeah?

846.

Fox:

Yes.

847.

Levy:

You don't have a copy of that, do you?

848.

Fox:

Yes.

849.

Levy:

Right. Show us that?

850.

Fox:

It's a photocopy. It's not the original.

851.

Levy:

Yeah, yeah. No, it's fine. [grunt]

852.

Fox:

So, I ask you now, who's really delusional, Mark Myhre and my ex-wife, or me? Where's their evidence to support any of their claims?

853.

Levy:

Y-, y-, you wouldn't allow us to have a copy of this would you?

854.

Fox:

No.

855.

Levy:

Or this?

856.

Fox:

That you can have a copy of.

857.

Levy:

There you go.

858.

?UM:

Thank you.

859.

Levy:

We'll just get that along, or we'll can get it on the way out.

860.

Heng:

Yeah.

861.

Levy:

Yeah.

862.

Fox:

Or I could email it to you. Like I said, I have an electronic copy. I scanned them.

863.

Heng:

I'll make a copy.

864.

Fox:

Are we done then? Does that mean we're done?

865.

Levy:

I guess. I'm just wondering what, if anything, we can do to be of help. I guess what, let me... let me, yes, we are done today. Let me just speak to your probation officer and see what, if anything, they were hoping for by having you come to see us.

866.

Fox:

[laughs] They were hoping for you to say that I am schizophrenic and delusional and need to be locked up and can't be trusted and anything that I say bad about the government --

867.

Levy:

I simply don't think --

868.

Fox:

-- cannot be true.

869.

Levy:

I don't think [chuckles] you're schizophrenic, I can safely say that. Um...

870.

Fox:

But you're not willing to say that I'm not delusional. Interesting.

871.

Levy:

Well...

872.

Fox:

A delusion is, after all, the belief in something that isn't true or that all of the evidence --

873.

Levy:

Well, well I know you've --

874.

Fox:

-- is contrary to.

875.

Levy:

-- got, you've certainly got evidence to support your beliefs so then it couldn't be delusional, right?

876.

Fox:

There is no evidence that's contrary to it.

877.

Levy:

Yeah, yeah. Bit of an unusual situation, I have to admit.

878.

Fox:

Yes. Yes, it is. And, uh, I also have copies, like I said, of the forged documents, the travel, uh, document applications. Um, but those, I don't have a printout --

879.

Levy:

Oh.

880.

Fox:

-- of. They're in my computer.

881.

Levy:

Alright. Well, let me just see what they wanted, uh...

882.

Fox:

Mm-hmm.

883.

Levy:

You want anything from us?

884.

Fox:

Restroom?

885.

Levy:

[laughs] Okay, well alright.

886.

?UF:

[laughs] Yes. We have that.

887.

Levy:

Alright. Well, I appreciate you coming up here today. I, I guess if there's any further need, based on our conversation with the probation officer we'll give you in contact-, in contact with you, but I doubt it.

888.

Fox:

Okay.

889.

Levy:

Okay? Thank you for coming in.

890.

Fox:

Sure.

891.

Levy:

Good luck. Oh, got everything? [indiscernible] not to worry.

892.

Fox:

Okay, thank you [indiscernible].

893.

?UF:

I'll get you a photocopy?

894.

Fox:

Sure.

895.

?UF:

Uh, I know, um, your probation officer might be able to talk somebody at Belkin to, perhaps, extend your stay.

896.

Fox:

He had suggested that I should ask them about that or talk to them about that. Um, the thing is, their policy is to allow people to stay there for 30 days. They make exceptions sometimes. Um, I don't believe that my circumstances warrant an exception. Um, I realize that my circumstances abnormal, but, uh, I don't think it would be proper for me... I mean, if they offer that's fine but...

897.

?UF:

Right. So, it's just this page you want me to copy?

898.

Fox:

Sure.

899.

?UF:

Sorry. Yeah, but would you [indiscernible].

900.

Fox:

Well, there's a place called the Yukon, just up the street from here.

901.

?UF:

Yeah.

902.

Fox:

Um, but I have a creeping suspicion that everything is going to work out fine.

903.

?UF:

Okay. Well, um, do you have the phone number for Yukon?

904.

Fox:

Nope.

905.

?UF:

Do you want me to get it for you?

906.

Fox:

Nope.

907.

?UF:

Okay. Can I photocopy this [indiscernible]?

908.

Fox:

I think that my probation officer wants me to stay at the Belkin House because they don't like the idea of me leaving there and then them not knowing where I'm staying.

909.

?UF:

Oh yeah, I guess you have to let them know when you move, right?

910.

Fox:

Within two d-, or two days prior to.

911.

?UF:

Okay. If you can't get a hold of Yukon just let me know and we'll try and get a hold and see if they have room.

912.

?UF:

[indiscernible]

913.

Fox:

I'm, I'm sure that that's not going to happen.

914.

?UF:

[indiscernible]

915.

Fox:

Well, I figure, I'm Jewish and God is gonna take care of me.

916.

?UF:

Okay [indiscernible]. [Laughs] [indiscernible]. Do you have our phone number?

917.

Fox:

I'm sorry?

918.

?UF:

Do you have our phone number?

919.

Fox:

Nope. Oh, wait. I don't know. I might. Do you have a card?

920.

?UF:

Yeah, I do have a card here [indiscernible].

921.

Fox:

Okay.

922.

?UF:

[indiscernible] and her name is Lee.

923.

Fox:

Okay.

924.

?UF:

And that's Dr. Levy. [indiscernible]

925.

Fox:

Sure.

926.

?UF:

[indiscernible]

927.

Fox:

Thank you.

Psychiatric Assessment Interview of Patrick Fox (2019-01-26)

Synopsis